EPISODE THIRTEEN

Please note this is a verbatim transcription from the original audio and therefore there may be some minor grammatical errors.

Andy Griffiths
So here we go Welcome along to this episode of The tickety boo podcast, the mental health podcast that says it’s okay not to be okay. Struggling with your mental health is very often a lonely road for those that are experiencing it and typically results in a vicious circle of unwanted feelings and direct effects. Struggling with your mental health is so much more than low mood, it can be trembling hands and heart palpitations. But for some people, mental health issues can lead to hair loss, or people experiencing hair loss can end up with bad mental health, they’re both linked. So when our mental health is bad, it can contribute to a number of hair loss conditions. And on the flip side, if you’re living with a condition that impacts your hair, that can negatively impact your mental health as well. So, hair loss is a common problem that can be caused by a number of different reasons. And at times, it can be quite difficult to determine what the cause of the hair loss is. So today, we’re going to take a look at the link between physical health and mental health and hair loss. And I’m delighted to have wil fleesen from trichology Scotland with me morning Wil, welcome to the podcast. How you doing?

Wil Fleeson
Yeah, I’m good. Andy, thanks very much for inviting me along. Good morning.

Andy Griffiths
Yeah, great. I’ve been meaning to get well on the podcast for ages now. So this, I’m really looking forward to this one. Wil, for those listening, could you explain exactly what a trichologist does? Because some people like I’ve got no idea what a trichologist actually does.

Wil Fleeson
Yeah, it’s a question we get asked all the time. So you know, people say to me, you know, what? A psychologist, you know, no, no, I trichologist. So, especially, you know, I’ve got a little bit of a lisp as well. So it’s even hard for me. But I trichologist, really, to put it simply, it’s a branch of dermatology that specialises in hair and scalp disease. So our whole role is to really investigate sort of deep causes root causes for what’s going wrong with somebody’s scalp or what’s going on with somebody’s hair.

Andy Griffiths
Okay, so would a dermatologist get involved with issues of the scalp? Or do they tend to shy away from that stuff? I mean, do you guys work hand in hand, are you very separate?

Wil Fleeson
Yeah, I mean, dermatologists will look at the whole body, okay. So they will look at scalps as well. And we primarily look at scalp. So we often triaged people to a specialist dermatologist, if we feel that they need that level of care or treatment, so people could come and see us and we would investigate what’s going wrong, right? If we thought that they needed medical intervention, whether it you know, sort of work really well going through to see dermatology, we could work those through.

Andy Griffiths
alright, okay,the link between our self esteem and our hair is incredible, isn’t it, I didn’t quite realise how it can impact our mental health, our general well being. And for a lot of people, they certainly come into my therapy room, when there’s an issue with a hair, it kind of becomes a shameful secret. You don’t want anyone to know that you’ve got an issue or you’re convinced that the whole world is can see your issue that’s kind of going on. It’s a deeply personal thing, isn’t it?

Wil Fleeson
It Is I mean, the attachment emotionally with our hair is is huge. You know, it’s kind of our sense of being to a degree and my background before trichology was hairdressing. So I’ve been in the hairdressing industry for 35 years. So I understand how people feel emotionally about their hair on the cosmetic level. And then when I started to study to trichology, I started to get the scientific background to that. Now I understand the things that can make hair problems or hair go longer scalps and things, right, but because I own understand the emotional attachment, you know, that allows us to work in a very different way with clients that come to see us, you know, they don’t have to feel as anxious about coming in, because it’s okay to be really upset. It’s not what you want it to be.

Andy Griffiths
So prior to being a trichologist and working as as a hairdresser stylist, you were experiencing clients coming in with issues and you weren’t really able to answer the question or join dots up for them. Is that kind of the reason for you heading off in that direction?

Wil Fleeson
Yeah, 100% that that’s exactly a nail on the head, you know that? I mean, I mean, in the hair industry for I would say about 25 years before I started to study trichology. I was aging as a hairdresser. My clients were aging with me. So the questions they were asking me were changing, you know, it was like, you know, my hair’s getting thin or my scalp you know, getting really irritated all of these type of things. And I didn’t have answers you know, and just been the type of person that I am you know, you get so connected with your clientele. I wanted to go and find the answers for them. And that’s when I started to research. Could I educate myself in this science brought in and just at that same time, a company had just arrived into this space that wanted to educate hairdressers in you know, government standard track ology education. So I was one of the first people to go through it, I was actually the first person to ever graduate through the company. Which was amazing. Numero Uno. Yeah, exactly. And it just sort of took off from there barely, you know, and now I’d I spend more time in the track illogical side of things, and I do in the hair side, because the demand is huge. Yeah,

Andy Griffiths
I suppose that’s really important as well, because these people probably have been clients for for many, many years, as you say, your age, and as your clients age, and they’re having different issues. And let’s be honest, most people talk to their hairdressers about everything in their life in the classic kind of way going on the holiday this year. But there are two personal things that come out in conversation as well about, you know, what’s going on with their family, their friends, where they’re at in life, and then they’re sat there thinking, you know, I’ve got some kind of issue with my hair, to be able to offer that level of reassurance or guidance as to what that person is supposed to do, is, I think it’s fantastic. Yeah, it’s

Wil Fleeson
huge. And again, hairdressers are naturally communicative, you know, they just naturally are, you know, are good at communication. So, making people feel comfortable about talking about such an emotional issue. Because, you know, sometimes you have to deliver bad news as well as good news, you know, and to do that in a way that that’s impactful. It’s empathetic is really, really important. Because generally, what I find that the clients that come to see me want to be listened to first, because the journey hasn’t been like that, up until that point, you know, they felt very much like, you know, they shouldn’t be so bothered about the hair and the type of things. So there’s a, there’s a huge emotional connection there.

Andy Griffiths
I can understand how people that are struggling can feel lost. Oh, absolutely. And feel like they’re the only person on the planet that have that issue, whatever that issue may be.

Wil Fleeson
Yeah, I mean, in the journey, for the person that’s experiencing this, so if they’ve say they’ve got density reduction, hair loss, or they think they have, they’re seeing themselves with no hair. Yeah, that’s what they’re seeing, you know, and that’s the absolute huge, terrifying, you know, picture that’s in their head. So, and often, there’s no way they’re going to get to that stage. But the information they’re getting is not giving them any help, you know, before they come to see people like us, you know, that has been told, Well, there’s a treatment for that, or they’re going on to Dr. Google, or they’re going into, effectively, you know, websites that are trying to sell product or that type of process. Yeah, so they’ve almost feeding on the anxieties and insecurities rather than delivering credible information to unwind

Andy Griffiths
that, yeah, doctor, Google’s always a dangerous place to go to, isn’t it? There’s a sea of misinformation out there. And you can look at somebody’s hair or an image and go that’s me. I’ve got that.

Wil Fleeson
Yeah, yeah. And so many conditions. Almost unless you’ve got an expertly trained, eye would, would look the same. So and people’s natural disposition is to take themselves to the worst. Yeah,

Andy Griffiths
outcome catastrophise the living daylights Absolutely, yeah.

Wil Fleeson
And it’s, you know, that, that’s, that’s really what brought me into the level that that I did, because, you know, like I say, it’s the emotional side of things, seeing people in front of you that have got to the journey. And by the time they see a track called just like, saved by the time they come to, often they’ve exhausted every other avenue, because a lot of people don’t know that try ecologists even exist, you know, so it’s often by chance or you know, something so it’s really important that in our world, we really get the message out there, you know, what we are, what we do and how we can help?

Andy Griffiths
And is a trichologists only available in the private or or are they in the NHS as well as is something you need to go and do yourself

Wil Fleeson
something you need to go and do yourself, right, sadly, at this moment in time, you know, we would love to start to try and, you know, work away into, you know, getting NHS health care. I mean, sadly, at the moment, hair loss is seen as a bit of a cosmetic issue within the NHS purely because probably the volumes of people and things and I think what has been missed there is is the emotional side of it, you know, yeah, like you’ve quite rightly said this is not just a physical travel and psychological ideological. Yeah, and like you said, in the Intro to Psychology can exasperate the question.

Andy Griffiths
Yeah, so most people tend to associate hair loss with some kind of cancer treatment, don’t they? And if we can put, hang on now a lot and kind of go well, that they know they’re going through cancer treatment, so we’ll let that go. But if you see somebody else with visible hair condition it, what goes through our mind? What are we thinking about these people? I don’t think culturally we kind of support people that are struggling with any kind of condition like that at all. I mean, I wouldn’t like to walk in to a public place, knowing that everyone was looking at me, nevermind all the stuff that I was putting in my own head, as well.

Wil Fleeson
And hair loss is not a condition. It’s a secondary response to a primary cause. And that’s what’s been missed, you know, so we don’t just lose hair. There’s something going on triggering that psychologically. And that is why it’s been looked at the wrong way round. Yes, try ecologist, we see the hair loss, but we examine what we would call the root cause of triggering

Andy Griffiths
cause, yeah, what’s going on? So for me, it’s individuals who have been diagnosed with anxiety, anxiety, or OCD, or bipolar disorder or something like that, you know, the very stressed anxiety for OCD. Certainly hair pulling, or trichotillomania, you guys call it if I’m gonna go by the official name is a control mechanism for the person I’m, I’m feeling all these unwanted feelings. And this brings me comfort. Yeah. And then they start to notice they’ve got gaps, because they’re literally pulling their hair out. But if you remove that coping mechanism without dealing with anxiety, it’s a it’s a recipe for disaster.

Wil Fleeson
Yeah. And, again, you know, in our previous conversations, this is why it’s so important that try colleges have a network of other healthcare professionals around them. Yeah, we’re very much and now I’ve been in this, you know, sector for such a long time, I really understand where our role is within it, we are very much a triage type service. So people will come to us will accurately diagnose you know, what’s going on? And really, what is the care for that individual. Sometimes there’s no physical care needed. Sometimes it’s emotional care, you know, back to people like yourself, sometimes it is medical care, you know, sometimes it might be health care. But what we’ve got to do is realize, as I was saying before, hair loss itself, or scalp disease is not just generally a primary cause. There’s other things underlying triggering that. So yeah, and it might be a holistic type of care, sometimes people might need to see different specialists, yes, to help, you know, sort of unpick what the triggers are, and then,

Andy Griffiths
yeah, work. So I know, people that end up in my therapy room with some kind of mental health condition, which has impacted their hair, or they’ve been physically pulling their hair and have created, you know, that has thinned, or maybe they got bald spots from from kind of doing it is no amount of reassurance for me, as a mental health therapist is going to convince them that there has gone to be, okay, I can definitely help them with the unwanted feelings and the behaviors. But I think somebody from a scientific point of view can look actually at what’s going on with their hair and say, Well, if you stop doing that, your hair will grow back, because I think some people are just convinced that my hair’s always going to, to be like this. I mean, for you working at the coalface with clients? Are you finding that it’s primarily psychological issues that people are coming in with? Or is it a 5050 split between, you know, hormonal issues or, you know, thyroid issues or something like that? Or is it you know, is there a pattern

Wil Fleeson
that I would say seven out of 10 clients we see are experiencing a greater than normal hair fall rate? I mean, when they’re washing or drying the hair, they seeing more hair than they would naturally say? Nobody knows their hair, like the individual, you know. So there’s a lot of people that are experiencing things that are not right with their hair, and all their friends and relatives are saying it’s fine, it’s fine. It’s not me talking about what they know themselves. And I would always encourage people to act on that because, you know, you had the best, right? But with these accelerated shedding rates, they’re often completely self rectifiable. And probably the most common trigger for that to like, say seven out of 10 people I see it expensive, more Hachette than normal. Out of that group, I’d say seven out of 10 have some sort of deficiency or maybe insufficiency within bloodwork, okay, i and b 12, folic acid, these type of things combinations. So once we understand and establish that, you know, when people come in I’ll say look, let’s have a look at the blood sets and we can either run them or or we have look at NHS sets if they have them, and we can start to see the pictures, you know, and what we do is we put all of these different pictures together and then we take them To deliver that information back to the client, and you can see just a light bulbs going off great time. So actually the treatment to that person’s individual, you know, cases, increase in blood numbers in whatever the deficiency might be. And then it’s managing expectations, because heavy generation is a very, very gradual process. Okay, we measure in four to six months windows, at the least, you know, we wouldn’t have a measure underneath, because it takes time for things to respond. So that’s really important as well. Yeah, this can be improved, it can work, but don’t think it’s gonna be in three or four weeks time.

Andy Griffiths
Right? But don’t give up all hope.

Wil Fleeson
Don’t give up alone. Yeah, and, you know, going back to these numbers of people, over 90% of people I see can have the hair density, improved, rectified worked with. Same with scalp conditions, you know, let’s not forget scalp conditions. 30% of people I see have scalp condition, these can be really debilitating, right, and often misdiagnosed. And they need quite specific forms of treatment, you know. So because treating separate dermatitis for instance, is very different to treating psoriasis. However, they could almost look identical, right? So GPS will do as much as they possibly can, you know, they can’t really kind of clinically identify which one they’re looking at. Sometimes people are getting treatment for the right reasons, but it’s not going to give them the right result.

Andy Griffiths
Do you find? I know a lot of clients that I see are on various, you know, beta blockers, mood stabilizers, antidepressants, do you find as a result of the medication they’re taking, for one thing, the hair starts to pay the price.

Wil Fleeson
So let’s see this hugely. Now you look through any medication from paracetamol all the way through service. And for some reason in there, there’s a little bit says hair loss might be okay, problem. Now, hair loss is probably the worst term that could be used. Because they’re saying hair loss. Yeah, what it should be is you might experience a little bit of shedding a few months later, don’t worry, it’ll grow back, it’ll just stop it Yes, as your body. So very rarely, outside of things like chemotherapy, you know, very rarely do the actual medications cause hair loss. Biologically, as you’re absorbing medications, they might unbalance your biochemistry for a short period of time. Sometimes this can move through to a period of excessive shedding, which will generally then settle down and you continue on with the medication. Right. So again, something else is it that I really want to work on is, is putting the right information through things like that, as well. We do a lot of that in the clinic, we talk about people about the medications, that the medication far outweighs what’s going on with their hair. And actually the hair will stabilize and normalize pretty much I

Andy Griffiths
think the word hair loss. I my brain immediately jumps to bold. Yeah, it doesn’t do hair thinning, or you know, you losing some hair, but you’ve still got plenty of hair to compensate. I did my brain does goes bald,

Wil Fleeson
but it’s not it’s, again, the information is in the leaflet for the right reason. But yeah, thought about the emotional impact of that automatically having, you know, just those two words, yeah, it’s probably the worst two words, for some people they could hear, you know, sort of out of, you know, really, really awful, you know, disease or something like that. But you know, hair loss is, is really just one of the worst things that people could feel.

Andy Griffiths
And I think, as a culture, we tend to think this is primarily a female thing. But it’s a deeply personal thing for men losing the hair, as well as I mean, some guys just completely own it, you know, that the grant Mitchell’s of this world, and people like that, but others fiercely fight it. And that causes a lot of stress in them as well. I mean, is it predominantly women that are coming to you in the clinic? Are you saying guys as well.

Wil Fleeson
So in the early days, we used to see a lot of guys, the guys that I will see are genuinely between 16 to late 20s. It’s affecting them emotionally. Physically, I mean, they’ve really affecting so the male pattern loss is what we call a young man syndrome. It can often start when people are reaching puberty. So you got a pubescent guy starting to lose his hair. Yeah, it’s probably one of the worst things could happen. So we see people in really, really unstable psychological feelings as well. And, you know, again, we’d need to manage that because at that particular moment in time that they’re going through this huge, you know, sort of biological change in their body. And then it’s having this particular side effect. What’s happening now, there’s lots of digital clinics jumping up where guys can jump on and they can just go and get meds, you know, just by signing through, but again, there’s no real diagnosis as to what’s going gone, right. And sometimes these treatments aren’t going to give them any long term success. So they’re still not be managed, psychologically as well, which is really important. Before you came

Andy Griffiths
in today, I jumped on Google and just googled, you know, I’m going bold, what should I do? And the amount of products, yeah, online that are pushed on with some pretty bold statements behind them as well that, you know, take these tablets and you have or go back in six weeks and stuff like that. Is any of this stuff regulated? Or?

Wil Fleeson
No, I mean, it’s the medications will be, you know, as they go through, but again, a big part of our role is managing expectations. So uninsured ecologist, we take an ethical line of we will not enter conversations with solutions that aren’t going to give somebody an efficacious result, or potential, you know, so we don’t sell products, we don’t sell, you know, services in that way, what we do is we offer and give people information and say, Look, these are the different treatments that are out there. But then part of our goal is to give people the background and that treatment, what is the success rate for them? Potentially? What are the side effects of these meds? Because it’s right at info invasive medications? You know, are they aware that this could be a potential side effect. So you know, we really do manage the whole kind of process of what they’re looking

Andy Griffiths
at. So quite refreshing to hear that you’re, I’m sure some people listening to this light, will just wants to get me in the clinic. So we can sell me this superduper shampoo and oil and treatment. But it’s not about that at all. It’s about actually giving you data of this is what’s happening with your hair. And this is what you want to do with it.

Wil Fleeson
Yeah, I’ll clean it doesn’t sell products. website, you won’t see anything on there. Because at the end of the day, there’s some really good stuff out there. Yeah. But just like I said, with the scalp conditions, if you’ve got one condition, it could be the best stuff in the world, it’s still not gonna work, because it’s the wrong stuff added on condition. Yeah, you know, square peg round hole. Exactly that. So our goal is, is not to sell product, it’s to really say to people, this is where you are, these are your options. And these are what you can expect. And also what is the financial outlay, because a lot of treatments are like gym memberships. If they’re successful, they’ll work. But you got to keep using them.

Andy Griffiths
Is that his daughter? Psychologist do that? Or are there some out there that try to push product? Well, I’m going to take that as a as a Yeah, I know, I’m not asking you to bash your industry, because really, the aim of this conversation is for maybe somebody listening to this somewhere in the world,

Wil Fleeson
our approach, and anybody that I associate myself with, or any of my years with, have that approach of No, we’re not product sellers. We are information sellers. And yeah, where we invest heavily is having the most up to date scientific information, and surrounding ourselves with people that can deliver care in a way that’s going to be a long term solution to

Andy Griffiths
things. I mean, it’s not a similar thing, but I’d have the dog or the cat the other week, and the vet said to me, your dog needs this medication. But you can buy it cheaper yourself. And I almost fell over. Yeah. They’re going the welfare of the animals, the most important thing and, you know, yes, you can buy them from us. We have them here. But you can get them a lot cheaper,

Wil Fleeson
do exactly the same thing. Right? I will direct people to where they can get really, really good, you know, results. But again, at the, you know, the most realistic cost to them.

Andy Griffiths
suit that. That’s good to hear. Well, I have some questions from some of the listeners to the podcast, if you’re happy to answer some of them that that’s okay. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so we’ve had I won’t do names, but we’ve had a female email and she said, What can I do to thicken my hair up for many years, I wore hair extensions, and made the decision to take them out. I’m about a year on my hair is definitely growing. But anything I can do or any supplements or any anything I could look at my diet to help promote my hair growth.

Wil Fleeson
So the blood is the delivery of energy for our hair follicle. So if we put into really simplistic terms, the blood is the driver for your hair generation. Okay, so really key components within our blood is iron levels of vitamin B 12 levels, folate levels, vitamin D. So, supplements can be really good. There’s a huge market around supplements, I guess, floating market at the moment. So it can be contested how much out of a supplement we would actually absorb into our system. Sure. So I always go through diet. Diet is always going to be the fast way. So you know, protein levels, you know, red meats, white meats, fish, if you’re vegetarian or vegan green leafy vegetables, but just working on diet is really, really important. But always working in those protein levels, iron levels, that type of process, right? If you’re unsure about it, get a blood test. Yeah, blood test. And

Andy Griffiths
I was gonna say, rather than try and try and different supplements, actually get some data and go, you need the data shows you need this supplement, and then you know, you’re taking something that’s ultimately if you’re patient, and you stick with it, you’re consistent, you should see,

Wil Fleeson
that’s what yeah, we would always say, so whenever I see people, I always try and ask for a blood test. So someone’s had an NHS that because they’re being said, Yeah, we look at those. But we work with private labs now that it’s so easy to get a blood test from really, really easily. So you don’t even have to tap the NHS system, you know, we can literally send somebody through, get the test on five days later, we’ve got a full med report on that. And we can sit down and talk them through it.

Andy Griffiths
I suppose somebody listening to this or go, this is going to cost me an absolute arm and a leg. Is this an expensive process? Or are we talking 1000s of pounds in a row?

Wil Fleeson
No, no blood tests, 70 pounds, eight pounds, maybe 100? For specific sets? You know, consultation visits, 100 140 pounds, so probably not at all. And think about how much people would spend potentially on the wrong products that aren’t gonna work.

Andy Griffiths
And can you put a price on your peace of mind? Totally. Okay, um, one thing that I wanted to pick up on is obviously a lot of my clients have anxiety issues. is predominantly I brought with people with panic disorder, trauma and stuff. Anxiety and hair loss. I mean, you’re going to be anxious that you’re losing hair anyway. But from a tree ecologist point of view, what part does anxiety play in this process?

Wil Fleeson
Good question. It’s, it’s two ways around, you know, anxiety about hair loss. Yeah. Feeds anxiety. Yeah, you know, but anxiety can also feed hair loss. And what I mean by that is, if you look at it from my side, not your side. But yeah, as a science side of it, the cortisol in our system, is what can hamper so what it actually does is, it can sometimes miss signal, the hair follicle to shatter her earlier than it would normally do. Right now that hair will always be regenerated. So again, it’s back to that hair loss thing. You know, when we talk about people that are shedding more hair than normal, we don’t consider that hair loss. It’s it’s a density reduction, they notice that the hair is not as thick as it would normally be okay, but with the shedding phases, the hair is always been regenerated. It’s the percentage of shedding that is grown, you know, and somebody will never experience total hair loss with that, you know, we would normally shed her 10% of our total scalp follicles and 90% should be in the growing phase. With accelerated shedding, it could be 70% growing and 30% shedding and it never goes, you know, much worse than that. But when somebody is experiencing an extra two thirds of shedding that they would do normally, that will have an impact. So that will then feed anxiety. Yeah, you know, that produces more cortisol?

Andy Griffiths
Well, the thing I’m trying to do with clients is trying to stop producing cortisol. Yeah,

Wil Fleeson
exactly. So, so that so whilst it won’t create a permanent loss, it can exasperate that and you get into this vicious circle.

Andy Griffiths
Right? That’s really interesting. And we do live in a very anxious world nowadays, don’t we, I we’ve come out of the back, or we are coming out of the back of a global pandemic, people have come out the back end of it with mental health issues that they didn’t know that they had, you know,

Wil Fleeson
COVID has been huge conversation from people I’ve had COVID that creates a excessive shedding pattern.

Andy Griffiths
Well, I’ve got clients with long COVID that are losing hair as a result of it. Yeah,

Wil Fleeson
I see a lot of people like that. And again, it’s working that through because the body’s still recovering from a major infection goes back to this blood situation where the blood flow is what feeds the hair follicles. So if the body’s fighting another process, or it’s got a new medication going again, all of these different things, you know, a lady might have heavy menstrual bleeds, you know, that loads differently, they might be on contraception just started just come off contraception, all of these different things affect our bloodstream. And that then affects the energy going into the follicle. And the follicle is a very sensitive organism that grows the hair, but it’s very robust. So it’s hard to damage. Right? It doesn’t take a lot to upset it.

Andy Griffiths
Right. Okay. That’s really interesting for those with anxiety listening that I think, you know, if you are struggling, get your anxiety under control. Yep, still, yeah, the cortisol production write down and take a step back and see what happens.

Wil Fleeson
Yeah, Absolutely, yeah, that’s greatly that’s really important. And because again, you know, if somebody hasn’t experienced telogen effluvium, which is a scientific term for more than normal hair shedding, it is terrifying when you look at it, no, people are like, Oh my god, I can’t keep this up. Because if this keeps coming out at this rate, I’m ending up with no hair. Yeah, that will not happen. Yeah. But I would always say as well, you know, go and chat to, you know, try ecologist, science, find somebody because they are very, very good at being in the perspective and giving you the outlay, because that in itself will help the anxiety.

Andy Griffiths
Stay off Google. Stay. Do not Google anything. Absolutely. Okay. So what are the mistakes you as a tree ecologist, see people making they come in into you, and they’re telling you they’re doing stuff? What are the ones that you tend to see most?

Wil Fleeson
I think one of the biggest things people start doing is they start washing their hair. Because what they hate to see is the hair coming out when they’re washing and drying it and thinking, well, if I stopped washing it, it’s gonna keep the hair in a hair that has been triggered into a shedding state phase is a bit like a baby tooth, that’s gone wobbly is coming out, it needs to come out. Because when it comes out, and new hair can go in behind it. So yeah, certainly one of the biggest hair myths is, you know, well, if I wash my hair less, that will keep it thicker. It’s not the case.

Andy Griffiths
Ah, that’s interesting. So what’s your first piece of advice where somebody suffering with hair loss and they’re listening to this right now then then then them worried about the hair? What’s what’s the first bit of advice you give them?

Wil Fleeson
Really seriously, talk to somebody go and seek a professional. I think the reason why I say that, because there’s probably three different categories of hair loss that we see if I tried to sub categorize them simply autoimmune processes. And that basically means that the body’s immune system is making a mistake in response. And it’s for some reason, affecting the hair or the scalp that needs treatment. Immediately looking after, we see hormonal issues where you know, sort of people’s has gradually thinning that does need, you know, specific angles of treatment. And then we see that the shedding rate. So I think that, you know, if you’re really concerned about it, go and speak and speak to someone, that kind of thing, because it goes back to the anxiety thing, it can really help. Yeah, understanding that.

Andy Griffiths
Yeah. And that stops you from overthinking it. And yeah, adding additional information into something, you might be completely wrong.

Wil Fleeson
And if people are listening and going, Oh, God, but I just don’t know, I just don’t want to know what’s going on. In case I get told something that I don’t want to hear ignorance is bliss. But yeah, necessarily 90% of the time, that is not going to happen. Yeah, 90% of the time, they will have a self rectifiable condition that can be easily Yeah, looked after.

Andy Griffiths
Our next question is, what’s the number one thing that we can all do just to have better hair?

Wil Fleeson
look after ourselves, you know, your hair is a byproduct of your biology. So, you know, hair is definitely affected by our physical and emotional well being 100%. So if you’re eating well, if you’re in a great state of mind, if you’re looking after yourself, then the hair is going to really follow suit. So I think that general well being is the way you know,

Andy Griffiths
yeah, I think a lot of people tend to roll their eyes when they hear this stuff, you know, hydrate, get outside and exercise. Look after your diet. Yeah. And people like I’m so sick and tired of hearing that stuff. But the problem is, there’s no shortcut to good self care is that you either do it, or you don’t. And, you know, you’d like to think of something as deeply personal as the hair, that’s going to trigger you into taking some lifestyle changes and doing things differently, or you’re looking for someone to give you a silver bullet to take it away.

Wil Fleeson
You know, you were just saying all of that. And I think in so many times people look for the quick fix. Yeah. And you know, it’s not there sometimes, you know, it just needs that. You know, that thought very excessive of work. And it’s a bit like I say, you know, Hair Regeneration. It, it’s a slow process. So degeneration, yeah, generally reduction of hair is often slow. Regeneration is very, very similar.

Andy Griffiths
Okay. Another question that’s come in is people in life are full of lots of good advice. And very often were either via Dr. Google or a well intentioned friend. They give you a misdiagnosis. Oh, that’s so and so. And there’s nothing you can do about that. Or a parent or your dad said like that. You just need to accept that you’re going to go bold or this is happening. You know, you so you get this wrong diagnosis. How often you find your people come to the door going, can you just confirm that this is next

Wil Fleeson
We see a lot of misdiagnosis, right? Because different conditions look. So similarly, I mean, it takes me an hour. That’s my consultation time really from start to finish going through medical background questioning, building out the story, understanding what the history is looking at blood work, doing a physical examination, looking at things microscopically, takes time, you know, to really kind of unwind what could be the association here, and so many conditions can look very, very similar. You know, if we go into the really extreme conditions, like the autoimmune processes, we can have cicatricial alopecia, this is where the scalp is literally been damaged by its own immune system. Yeah. And again, that needs dealing with almost immediately because the longer it’s left, the more damage is created. And that’s often reversible, where we have things like alopecia viata, which is often seen as little circles or hair loss. Now, that is generally associated with infection or extreme stress, these type of things that will often grow back very, very quickly, but they can look very, very similar. So on, you know, really needs treating immediately the other one, you know, it often we’ll just work its way through the system, because these

Andy Griffiths
sort of misdiagnosis, they’re very often sort of passing comments. Yeah, yeah, glancing comments made by somebody who’s probably got, you’d like to think good intentions. Yeah. Oh, that’s just so so all that happened to so and so that’s so that’s what’s happening to you.

Wil Fleeson
I think with with females, probably the biggest one is female pattern hair loss being misdiagnosed when it could be telogen effluvium. Now, you know, they’re two very, very different conditions. And they can look quite similar, again, to the untrained eye, right? However, to tell somebody that they have pattern hair loss is a huge emotional hammer blow to that person. Whereas telogen effluvium can look almost the same is almost always recoverable, once we know the underlying trigger to it. She’s often like say, blood relationships, that type of thing. So we see a lot of misdiagnosis with that, because where males and females experience pattern loss is very, very different. You know, so, guys, we lose, you know, the Crown and the top hair lines and things like that. That’s not the same for females. So, right. You know, often people say, Oh, your hairline is changing, you must have pattern hair loss, and it’s not right to do.

Andy Griffiths
So be very careful here, listen to and go and speak to someone who knows what they’re talking about. Yeah, I would say. Second Opinion is sometimes a good Yeah, that’s right. Right. Okay. Final question is How important is the right hairbrush for your hair type?

Wil Fleeson
That’s a good question. It is because you know, this is taking me back to my hairdressing side of things, you know. So the way that we look after hair wet and dry is actually very, very different because it’s a completely different consistency wet and dry. So often when we’re with dry hair, we should be using soft bristle brushes, these types of things. Always brush the hair from the ends to the root so you don’t you know, tuck it up and not when the hairs wet, you should be using less bristle brushes, because they put more tension onto the hair and they can kind of pull the hair because there’s so many teeth on them and use slightly wider space combs and brushes. So again, always comb out from the root so when it’s wet, make sure using brushes and combs and much more space in between the teeth right less resistancy when you’re pulling through the hair and then when it’s dry use your vessel effects Yeah, they kind of buff the hair up and polish it you know where is combs because plastic can put a lot of static into the hair when when to dry.

Andy Griffiths
So I blame my comb for my gray hair then that’s what that is. It must be the wrong comb surely very distinct where there’s blame there’s a claim I had it boosts your IQ if Google told me that so it must be true.

Wil Fleeson
That’s why I have not gotten much coverage

Andy Griffiths
well, well thanks ever so much for coming on today. It’s been a pleasure to talk to you. If people want to connect with you. Can we can they find you online? Can they get you on social media? What details?

Wil Fleeson
Yeah, so we’ve got the Facebook page track ology Scotland and we’ve got a website Shakeology scotland.co.uk Go on to there, there’s a Contact page, pop that in we’ve got the landline number, you know, call through there, one of the team will look after you generally just contact us. Just put a little bit of how you want to be contacted batch wants to email you do want to give you a quick call. Put little bit of background on what’s concerning you everything that we take is medical notes. So everything is completely confidential. And we will always come back to you and no question is a silly question. You know, we said right at the start of the conversation that having scalp issues can be very, very emotionally charged. So don’t worry that how you sound is going to make you look or sound that you’re vain or anything like that, that’s not the case. Just get in touch, we will come back to you and then we will set up a conversation.

Andy Griffiths
So that is some great advice there from well, well, thanks ever so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you

Wil Fleeson
now thanks for asking me it’s been good fun.

Dougie Jackson
If you’ve been affected by any of the topics in this episode of tickety boo, and you’d like to access mental health support, please in the first instance, call your GP. Remember, if it’s out with have normal office hours, you should contact NHS 24 on 111 The Samaritans on 116123 Alternatively, head over to the tickety boo website for a full list of the resources available to you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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